In today’s podcast interview you will learn how to make any job your dream job. With a reported 4.3 million people having left the US workforce in August of 2021, this is a very timely topic. The questions I have been asking leaders and teams include the following: Why do you want to stay working with your current team and company? What makes you want to leave? Are there parts of your current job or role that you feel frustrated with? Do you have the mindset to stay and make it work because it’s not going to be any better anywhere else? If any of these thoughts have crossed your mind, this podcast is for you. Learn how to advocate for yourself and make your current role work for you with my friend and guest Carson Tate.
Carson is the founder and managing partner of Working Simply, a productivity consulting and training firm and author of 2 books, her latest- Own it, Love It, Make it Work: Make Any Job Your Dream Job. Together we explore many tips and conversations you can have to invite optimal conditions for thriving and performance at work. We speak about the importance of building trust, so that we have the psychological safety for contracts and agreements that support work that we love, while having the brave exchanges to talk about healthy boundaries and other conditions that would make us love to stay and bring our best gifts to our teams and workplace. Tune into this encouraging episode today.
Mentioned in this Episode
The Imperfect Shownotes
Carley Hauck 0:01
Hi, my name is Carley Hauck. I am the host of the SHINE podcast. Welcome to another wonderful episode. I am the founder of Leading From Wholeness, a Leadership and Organizational Development Training firm that has served companies including Intuit, Bank of the West, Capital One, Pixar, Clif Bar, LinkedIn, and many high growth startups since 2010. I am also the author of Shine: Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead Consciously at Work and in the World.
And this podcast is all about the intersection of three things: conscious, inclusive leadership; the recipe for high performing teams; and awareness practices. This season, season five is all about speaking to friends, colleagues, thought leaders, around some of the biggest challenges we are navigating at work and in the world.
And in the midst of the reshuffle with reported 4.3 million people having left the US workforce in August of 2021. I speak about a very timely topic: how to make any job your dream job with my good friend, Carson Tate. This is a topic I’ve been talking to a lot of leaders and teams about. Why do they want to stay working with their current team and company? And what makes them want to leave? Are there parts of your current job or role that you feel frustrated with? Or maybe you’re even looking for other possibilities within your company? Or maybe outside of your company? Or are you have the mindset that it’s not going to be any better anywhere else? And instead, how do you advocate for yourself and make your current role work for you?
If you resonate with either one of these options, this is the podcast for you. In this interview, Carson, I talked about the strong inner game she uses to lead consciously at work and in the world. We explore many tips and conversations you can have to invite optimal conditions for thriving and performance at work. We speak about the importance of building trust, so that we have the psychological safety for contracts and agreements that support work that we love, while having the brave exchanges to talk about healthy boundaries, and other conditions that would make us love to stay.
Carson Tate is the Founder and Managing Partner of Working Simply, a productivity consulting and training firm that has served companies including Delta Airlines to Lloyd FedEx, Wells Fargo, and Chick fil A. She’s the author of Work Simply: Embracing the Power of Your Personal Productivity Style and her new book, which we’re going to talk quite a bit about in this podcast, Own It, Love It, Make It Work: How to Make Any Job Your Dream Job.
Carson, so lovely to have you here on the SHINE podcast. Thank you.
Carson Tate 03:25
Thank you. I’ve been looking forward to it all week in our conversation. So thanks for the opportunity.
Carley Hauck 03:43
Ah, you’re You’re welcome. I’m delighted to go into all these juicy places. So let’s start from the top. What motivated you to want to become a business coach, support businesses, leaders, and all the wonderful ways that you do it?
Carson Tate 03:58
Hey, we spend almost a third of our waking life at work. And I believe that work can be a place of meaning, purpose and great significance. And in our organizations, our leaders have a significant impact on the well being of their team and the performance of their organization. And I really wanted to help leaders really enable team members to shine- your word- and all facets of that, and not in any way have a focus on developing their folks and connecting to purpose and meaning in any way detract from their driving revenue. I believe both can coexist.
Carley Hauck 04:39
Thank you. And what would you define conscious inclusive leadership because I know that’s important to you.
Carson Tate 04:49
So I would take the two words and pull them apart first. So conscious to me, means awake and aware. And it’s grounded and radical self awareness, because I believe that we need to be very clear on how we’re showing up, what’s influencing us, our values, and that level of self awareness isn’t going to impede, it’s going to permeate our leadership. So, for me, I focus on the self part of consciousness.
And then the inclusion, that it’s not just about honoring differences, it’s about inviting folks to show up as their authentic selves, and that they feel a sense of belonging, and a connection to the organization, their team members, and the overarching purpose of the work.
Carley Hauck 05:46
Hmm. I love how you just broke those apart into the inner and the outer because you know, for my book, I really focused on that the conscious being the inner the inclusive being the outer game, love it. Yeah. Wonderful.
Well, I know that in your work, you focus on productivity, you focus on teams, you focus on leadership. And your first book, Working Simply, had a lot to do with productivity. And I know you created this really well regarded productivity skill assessment. And we’ll leave a link for the show notes.
And then you have a new book, which I have right next to me. Own It, Love It, Make It Work: How to Make Any Job Your Dream Job and super wonderful offering and very timely for right now. And I know this came out about a year ago, correct?
Carson Tate 06:44
Carley Hauck 06:46
So I, I wanted to talk to you a bit about this book. Because, as we know, and you obviously didn’t know this as you’re writing this book, because writing a book takes a long time. But somewhere in the unconscious or spirit or however this was channeled to you, there has been this big upset in the workplace. As of August 2021, we had 4.3 million people leave the workplace. This has been called the Great resignation, the great reshuffle. But in the United States, that’s about 2.9% of the workforce. That’s huge.
And people have been leaving because they want more flexibility, they want more meaning and purpose. They want more empathy and care and psychological safety and inclusion, they want to feel like they belong and don’t have to cover parts of themselves and can speak their truth and bring their authenticity like you shared in your definition. They want higher pay. They want the work life balance that maybe they never had. And so this book, again, in so many ways, addresses, how do we make you know, our work, work for us and really own what’s important. And so before I go into different aspects of your book, is there anything that you want to say in response to that?
Carson Tate 08:14
Well, first, I don’t think I had a premonition. But you’re right, it is very timely now. And I think also, I’m excited by these statistics, in the sense of it is a very strong catalyst for action. So when 2.9% of the workforce resigns, that is a message that is, I think, a resounding call for change. And everything that you said that we’ve seen in the research that employees want, sounds wonderful, psychological safety, being seen and valued authentically for who you are compensation that allows you to live your life, care for your family care for our community, meaning and purpose at work, excellent leaders who are able to lead organizations that succeed financially. That’s a pretty wonderful description of work. And so when you have these forcing agents, which this type of resignation is, change, isn’t oh, maybe nice to do, change now becomes a necessity, which is great.
Carley Hauck 09:32
Totally. I know that you have a meditation practice and we’ll get into this and yes, in a really big part of the Dharma, so to speak, that I have brought into making the workplace better, and that’s the world better. But when there is a lot of suffering, is often when we go to meditation, you know, we don’t often sit on our cushion when life is fabulous and great, but I do think that suffering is a huge catalyst for change. And there’s a lot to let go of in our world from the way we take care of the planet, to the way that we’re working to the way that we’re taking care of those we care about. And we love. So there’s, there’s a lot of opportunity for inner and collective transformation right now. Yeah.
So you’ve, you’ve really compartmentalized your book in kind of these three sections. Can you tell me what those three sections are?
Carson Tate 10:37
Yes. So the first section is Own It. And Own It is all about you getting clear on what your engagement and fulfillment needs are. There is not a one size fits all, Carley, and Carson’s might have some similarities, but you have your needs, I have my needs.
The second piece around Loving It is how do we create that happiness and that joy at work through relationships? Human beings are social animals, we are primed. It’s a primal need. So how do we build those connections that are so important? And how do we continue to advance in our career?
And then the third component of the book is Make It Work. So how do you use a technique? It’s called job crafting. But how do you start to shape and craft your job and career to meet those fulfillment and engagement needs that you have identified?
Carley Hauck 11:30
Wonderful. Well, I’m gonna go into a couple different exercises and aspects of those three parts. I think that’ll be really helpful for our listeners here. So, you know, as, as we’re talking about, how do we redesign the workplace, for greater empathy, for well being for psychological safety, for fulfillment, I know that some of the ways that you are able to be the strong leader that you are, and your well being practices are around three pillars. And so I thought we could start there.
And you called it when we talked a few weeks ago, the three legged stool, I loved that meditation, movement and resting. And when I heard you say that, it really corresponds a lot to the framework for my book. And, you know, how do we cultivate this strong inner game? Well, if we’re not taking that time for reflection, you know, the meditation, which is the, you know, building the self awareness. If we don’t have self-awareness, we can’t change what we don’t see, you know, whether that’s our own habits and our patterns of responding or reacting, how we’re doing it in the workplace, but also then how it corresponds to the greater world. And so tell me a little bit about how you take time, every day for this three legged stool.
Carson Tate 16:06
Yes, and I described it as a three legged stool and make a point on the why of that, because I think it’s important. I know, in my own life, when one of these legs, let’s say, for example, the one I most frequently give up is rest. When that leg isn’t secure, the whole entire stool topples over, right, every all of it falls apart.
But the way I make time is I start my day with meditation, prayer, reflection, and movement. And I’m a morning person. So I like to protect the early hours of my day for that, it centers me, It grounds me, and it energizes me for the day ahead.
Now, rest, for me, is also a part of movement. And we chatted about this as well. So it could be an active rest of my workday, you talked about going outside feet in the ground. And for me, it is outside and just maybe a five or 10 minute stroll around my neighborhood between meetings, just to let my brain rest. And then there’s obviously the physical rest of sleep.
Carley Hauck 14:13
Thank you. Well, and I brought that in at the beginning because I feel like that’s owning the parts of you that are necessary to cultivate first so that you can bring your best to be able to give whatever you’re wanting to give at work or in your relationships.
Carson Tate 14:39
Yeah. It’s that foundational piece. That is so important.
Carley Hauck 14:46
Mm hmm. Wonderful. Well, thank you for sharing how you’re making that a priority in your life.
The part of the Own It section of your book that I really loved was on cultivating a growth mindset. And so when we think about again, meditation as a form of cultivating self awareness supporting the growth mindset, and for folks that are in a work play scenario right now, and I was actually just talking to one of my clients earlier today, and I know you talked to a lot of people as well, and she is focusing on, I can’t change this, this isn’t working for me, I’m thinking about leaving this current leadership role. And then I encouraged her to focus on Well, what is working? And where actually, can you take some responsibility to maybe ask for what you want in a different way. And so I would love it if you could talk us through this part of your book, but more specifically, you have this fabulous framework called the C framework, could you tell us more about that, and how that supports us to own it.
Carson Tate 15:56
Mm hmm. And so the Own It is about the clarity around what you need. And one way that we can get clarity is through personal self reflections. And meditation is great. But another way to get insights and clarity about developmental opportunities and growth theory is through feedback. And most of the time, if we mentioned the word feedback, I don’t know about you, but most of us sweat, like, our brains immediately go to the worst case scenario.
And so the C framework is a feedback framework that we use with our clients to help them get feedback that is specific, where they can get where they share with their leader or their colleagues, they give an example of the type of feedback and they explain part of the feedback process that third, he is explained what I did or did not do. So it’s specific, share an example of the type of feedback that I want. And then my ask of you is to explain the behavior that did or did not occur. So we can be very fact based, very specifically and narrowly defined in one area.
So let’s say for example, I want to be promoted to a VP of our organization. And I know that succinct, clear communication is one of the competencies of the VPs in our organization. So you’re my manager Carley. And so, using this framework to develop and advance in my career to VP, I would come and say, Carley, I want to advance to being a VP, I’m really focused on developing and refining my communication. When we’re in meetings together, can you please let me know, if you hear the bottom line, or the central point or my opinion, within the first five minutes of that presentation? Then what you would do, is after the presentation is that, Carson, I heard your central point, I was like, 12 minutes in? Great. So you didn’t do it in the first five. And it’s very clear, and it’s also very narrowly defined. And so it allows me to focus on developing one skill set at a time, without good or bad or great, because that’s not feedback. I can’t replicate it. And I know that it’s going to be behavior that is observed.
Carley Hauck 18:19
Wonderful. Well, and for a lot of people, you know, even though we want feedback, it’s hard for us not to take it personally sometimes. And what I love about this framework is that it keeps it focused on the actions, you know, it’s you didn’t do anything wrong. It’s just that you still have refinement to do on this particular action. Right. So it pulls the shame right out of there.
Carson Tate 18:48
Absolutely. Yes. And when you focus on asking your manager for feedback, some of our clients don’t want to feel this way and struggle to ask for feedback. But when we connect it to performance, and we connect it to career advancement, I’ll also think it takes a little bit less of the anxiety out of it. And then when you are this specific, it is about behavior and actions. I didn’t do it or not. And then you’re giving me the feedback of what did or did not occur. So I can adjust in my next presentation.
Carley Hauck 19:23
Let’s take a body break. Notice your feet connected to the floor. Notice your body standing or sitting. So just take a few minutes, I’d like to lead you through an awareness practice around trust. Take a deep breath in. Deep breath out to any movement and the shaking and the sounding to release tension. Just bringing your awareness into the present moment.
When I am invited to work with teams or senior level leaders and companies, one of the first things that I’m assessing for is the level of trust and psychological safety. Trust is the essential ingredient and foundation for all relationships, but also for all businesses to thrive. Because business is all about relationships. And without trust, you can’t build anything that will succeed for the long term. And any kind of organizational change will be seriously challenged if you don’t have a foundation of psychological safety and trust.
So what is trust? Well, organizational scholars define trust as our willingness to be vulnerable to the actions of others, because we believe that they have good intentions and will behave well towards us. In other words, we let others have power over us because we don’t think they’ll hurt us, we think they’ll help us and have our backs. And when trust levels high within coworker relationships, it corresponds to trusting the company that employs us. And we feel confident and want to save us or abuse its relationship with us. It has our backs.
But then why are so many people leaving the US workforce? It all comes down to trust. But how do we trust? And in order to trust someone, especially someone who was unfamiliar to us, or someone that has deceived us? There’s a lot going on under the surface, there’s likely thoughts on both sides such as should I trust you? How much do you trust me? Why should I trust you?
Some of us are innately trusting, naturally seeking positive intent and putting the we before the me.
But in my experience, trust is earned. It is not wise to trust someone blindly until you have vetted that they are in fact trustworthy. And just like everything else in life, it starts with the inner game. So I’d love to invite you to just reflect on a couple of these questions. This is about building trust with yourself. And the more that you trust yourself, the more you’ll be able to trust others, and develop social contracts and agreements for trust.
What assignment can you follow through on today that will support you in increasing your trust in yourself?
Next, identify someone in your life at work or at home who has violated your trust. After expressing your fears and concerns to this person, negotiate a task or request that he, she or they can do to rebuild trust with you.
Next, invite an open conversation with someone in your life at work or at home, whose trust you have violated. What happened? Did you break an agreement or break a boundary of theirs? After sharing your feelings of remorse and desire to repair, invite a new agreement that begins to restore the original broken agreement.
So these three invitations as you can see, start from the shallow end to the deep end. And it starts on the inside.
If you’re interested in growing your inner game, upskilling your soft skills for conscious, inclusive leadership, my book and hardcopy or audiobook has lots of wonderful ways that you can do this. And in fact, the exercise I just shared with you is coming from chapter six, the Inner Game of Authenticity.
If you’re interested in learning how to create a foundation of psychological safety, building more trust through authenticity, so that you have the optimal performance for thriving, I would love to speak with you. You can book a free concert floatation. And we can talk about how we can develop training, or a large scale program to support greater psychological safety and supporting this virtual distributed, trusting team in these times.
Now, going back to the second part of the interview, Carson and I will speak more to how to make any job, your dream job.
Before we move into the Love It part, is there anything else you want folks to know about Own It? I mean, you have a lot of pieces in there. And I know we’re doing broad strokes, because we don’t have all day together. Although I wish.
Carson Tate 25:56
The only thing I would say is that the thesis of the Own It section in the book is that you have an equal and powerful voice in the relationship with your employer. And part of this means you are co-creating a workplace and a job that’s mutually beneficial for you and for them.
Which means you need to know what you need. And then also to have the courage as you were coaching your leader, what can we find here that is working well for you? And the question, I’m sure she said, is how do we do more of it? And that puts some Own It on her. And then having the conversation with her manager of how do we create a job where I’m doing more of this work that is additive, allowing us to achieve our strategic goals driving revenue, that is also creating a more fulfilling workplace for myself?
Carley Hauck 26:48
Well, and I think that’s what’s so interesting about this time right now, you know, I feel like in many ways, workers leaders were just, they were stuffing, what they really wanted, you know, what would really work for them? What would really allow them to bring their best what would allow them to shine, and now in this, I’ve had it done, I’m leaving, but that feedback was likely not shared before they left, or maybe it was in small ways, or maybe they just didn’t feel like it was going to be heard.
And so now as they’re looking for the next role, the next company, I feel so curious about what’s happening in these negotiations, right? You look at a job and it says 30% travel, or it says, you know, this, this, this and this. And now I think people are feeling empowered to say this is a negotiation, like if I’m going to put in a majority of my waking hours, my love, my innovation, my effort into this job into this team? How do I really make it work for me?
Carson Tate 28:02
Yes, and I believe employers are recognizing that, to get all the richness that you and other folks always bring, it is a negotiation to create optimal conditions for people to thrive and for us to achieve goals 100%. And it’s being willing to challenge some of the status quo and norms that are really not in alignment with performance that have been around since the Industrial Revolution. And you know, we have built knowledge base work off of industrial base manufacturing principles. We’re not robots, we’re human beings, not human doings.
Carley Hauck 28:45
Totally. I say that all the time. Well, wonderful. Let’s move it into Love It. And I also use love a lot in my world. And in my book, and so not a lot of us business folks use the word love but hey, if we’re not loving our work, if we’re not bringing love, then why would we want to work for that team? Or that leader? That company? Right?
Carson Tate 29:10
That’s my belief. Yes. Yes!
Carley Hauck 29:17
So, in the Love It focus of the book, you start off in the very beginning of that section on strengths and weaknesses and skill development. And I love again, that you’re focusing on upskilling because that is such a huge topic right now as we are trying to figure out what is going to support people to want to stay within their current organization, and what’s attracting people to want to go to a different organization.
And especially these younger workers, you know, Gen Z millennials. They’re really craving mentorship, coaching. They want on-the-job skills training, they want to know that they’re going to be able to be promoted, you know, and have greater opportunities.
And so I’m gonna just focus on one behemoth, an amazing company called Amazon, because they’re putting a ton of money towards upskilling. And I was, I was really fascinated to see that. So by 2025, they’re committing $1.2 billion to provide free education, skills, training opportunities, to 300,000 of their employees in the US to help them secure new high growth jobs. And they’re also investing hundreds of millions of dollars to provide free cloud computing skills training to 29 million people around the world with programs for the public.
And you can actually find this on the regular Amazon site. I was looking at it last night, and I was pretty impressed with it. So they’re just one company that says upskilling is important to us, we’re gonna make sure that, you know, folks that are working for us have the skills to really develop and stay here and grow their careers.
And so in your chapter, you talk about assessing your current skills. And you focus on three different distinctions of soft skills, hard skills, and then hybrid skills. And first, I’d love to hear your thoughts on what I shared about upskilling. But I’d also love it if you could break down why you focused on those three parts of skills.
Carson Tate 31:38
Well, I first did not know that about Amazon. And I’m so excited to hear their commitment, and their leadership around their commitment to their team members and upskilling. And it is absolutely necessary. I mean, I think we’ve seen during the pandemic, that there has been such a radical shift in how we work, that that requires a reimagination of our skills. So, AI, computing, we knew, and these have always been really needed skills, but I think that’s been accelerated.
And we also have jobs that are going away. But we have talented people in these roles who we need to help, I believe, adjust, learn and grow in new ways. I think that is part of the conscious community of us being of supporting our team members, it’s so important.
The reason I focused on soft, hard and hybrid skills, was to break it down for my readers and for our clients. So that they could take incremental steps is I think, when you think about upskilling, that word just what does that mean? Where do I start? I wanted to take the overwhelm out of professional development and growth and break it down into different steps. And depending on where you want to go in your career, there’s more of an emphasis sometimes on different sets of these skills.
So soft skills would be communication, it would be empathy, it would be emotional intelligence, it would be persuasion, these are skills that I believe are essential for all folks, versus hard skills, which I define as technical skills. So for example, can you put together an Excel model on a complex financial transaction, that’s a technical skill, a technical skill could also be using your company CRM. So if you’re a customer service representative, there’s a customer there is a CRM tool, or there’s some type of software that you are expected to use, that is a technical skill, and a hybrid is a combination of assault and a technical skill. And I think about an example here would be email communication. So do you have the soft skill of communication, written communication skills that are clear? And can you appropriately use the technology to make sure that that communication is received? That you’re doing it seamlessly and not wasting a lot of time and energy in that platform?
Carley Hauck 34:12
I feel really curious because I know, as a leader, I’m a learner. And I really value learning all the time and upskilling and my own growth and development. What have you chosen to upskill and learn and grow in the last year and a half? I mean, I would imagine you’re always choosing things to grow. But I, I feel curious in just the navigating of so many things like all of us.
Carson Tate 34:45
So where I’m really focused, my learning right now is on change. Because we’re in the midst of massive change. Why people change, how you lead change, how you lead broad scale. It’ll change, how you shorten the change curve, how you connect head and heart, how we really get into intrinsic motivators that are really driving this change.
And the other piece that I’m really fascinated about is trust. Trust on teams, you’re talking about psychological safety, which is an element of it. And how do we cultivate that in a hybrid workplace. Because the interactions on a screen are different than if you and I were sitting at a beautiful coffee shop in Asheville, North Carolina, it’s very, very different.
And I don’t believe that the future of work is going to be that we’re all in an office together all the time, moments, potentially, there are certain segments of the workforce where they will be working together. Our physicians, our teachers, manufacturing fulfillment centers, however, we’re still gonna have to build trust, and how do we do that?
Carley Hauck 36:02
Oh, I could totally go down this rabbit hole for a little bit. So I’m going to and then we’ll and then we’ll break through the book, which is the make it work. But I mean, that’s fascinating to me as well, the trust component. And that’s something that I take a lot of time, when I’m working with teams. And I think a part of it is vulnerability. But we have to have the psychological safety to feel like we can be vulnerable. What do you think about that?
Carson Tate 36:36
I agree with you, 100%. Yeah, I mean, it is vulnerability. It is, you know, vulnerability’s close cousin of authenticity. And there is an empathy component in here as well. But if I’m on a team, where I don’t feel safe, sharing, maybe a personal experience that has informed how I think about this decision or this project, and I’m not willing to share, be vulnerable about this piece of who I am. I don’t trust the trust isn’t there.
And so if you look at you know, the foundations of highly effective teams, trust me as the base of that pyramid, we can build that model. And so how do we do that? I’m, I’m intrigued. I do think it’s vulnerability, psychological safety, how do you create those conditions? And quite frankly, how do we get out of our ego selves, where we’re protecting, we’re fearful, we’re contracted, there’s not enough that I can open, be open. It’s safe, you’re safe, I’m saying?
Carley Hauck 37:50
Well, I would say not to plug my own book here.
Carson Tate 38:00
But I think you should plug your own book!
Carley Hauck 38:01
But, you know, I am brought in to teach a lot on building trust or authenticity. And I did a training for Capital One just a few weeks ago, and I was talking to Intel this morning about something they’re needing as well.
I mean, and I agree with you, because in this hybrid work environment, there are a lot of people that are going silent, or they’re zoomed out, or they’re, they’re not actually bringing their voice into the space and their cameras, frankly, not even on for some of these meetings, or trainings. And we don’t really know what’s going on with them. And they might be slowly deciding to leave the workplace or work to, you know, leave the team.
And so I feel like when we’re cultivating this strong inner game of self awareness, emotional intelligence, resilience, which that growth mindset, well being love and authenticity, we’re able to bring a more self regulated, aware response of loving, true person into the space, you know, where I can honor what’s true for me, but also be aware of what might be happening for the other. So I think it’s a lot of cultivation of the inner but then having agreements and social contracts that support us to be learning and growing together.
Carson Tate 39:28
Absolutely. I mean, I think you can use really tactical things around agendas, working agreements, you can create clarity and certainty norms. You can have conversations about how we support each other’s social and emotional needs, what are yours we’re, what are mine and how do we do this collectively as a group.
So there are some very tactical things that you can start to do to kind of scaffold within your team to create more and more psychological safety, more opportunities to cultivate trust and more opportunities for us to be vulnerable.
Carley Hauck 39:58
Well, I’m that’s actually where I wanted to go next is in the, you know, Make It Work section, you have this team audit process that I thought was so fabulous. Could you walk us through a little bit of that, because I think that supports greater trust.
Carson Tate 40:15
So the golden rule is, we all know it, most of us know is to treat others the way that you want to be treated. And the platinum rule is a rule that I think works even better for us in our personal and professional relationships, because it invites us to treat others the way they want to be treated. So we’re seeing others for who they are. So that’s the first paradigm shift, can you start to get to know your team members around how they want to be communicated with and worked with?
And so the way that we use our productivity style assessment tool is a way to audit the team and figure out their different work styles. So are you analytical or logical? Are you more organized and detailed or sequential? Are you more emotional, relational, kinesthetic, or intuitive, big picture and ideation. Each of these four work styles is a different way that they want to work with and interact with you.
So for example, let’s say team meeting. And as a leader, you aren’t aware yet that your team is predominantly analytical and logical. And you have been starting all of your team zooms with chatting about personal things, and sharing Netflix recommendations, which connection is important. But for these analytical, logical, folks, the way they read that from you, as a leader, is not valuing their time, not getting to the point, not being focused on the outcome that you’re disrespecting them and their time.
You as a leader, maybe you’re more relational motional kinesthetic, or looking at it is connection before content. I want to connect with my team, I’m building this trust and building this team. Very different experiences.
Carley Hauck 42:06
And so if you are coaching one of these more analytical leaders, what would you encourage them to say, if they’re getting really frustrated with the way that this agenda is happening for all these meetings that they’re having to attend.
Carson Tate 42:25
So I would invite them to have a one on one, ask their team leader for a quick connect afterward, and share with them that their work day, what works best for them is to be very focused and to know what the goal or the objective is for a meeting and to immediately start the meeting there. So that they can accomplish the meeting objectives in the most efficient way possible, and that they are very thoughtful and intentional about their time. And for them, their experience of what they would maybe say as chit chat is not efficient and feels like wasted time. And so detracts from their engagement in that meeting and their overall productivity for the day.
Carley Hauck 43:08
That’s fabulous. Thank you for that tip. Well, and then, if that leader who is actually hosting the meeting was really listening, I would encourage if I was that leader’s coach to then actually get a maybe anonymous report, so to speak from everyone or even just have an open discussion of what’s working for people about these meetings and what’s not? And how do we audit it so that it works for everyone? Would that be something you might suggest?
Carson Tate 43:46
Absolutely. And I think we have a very natural opportunity now to audit all of our team members, all our team meetings, know who we’re working with, I think we have an opportunity to audit all of our collaboration systems and processes. So we’re in the midst of another massive change. What better opportunity to say, Carley, you know, we haven’t been in person for 18 months, we’ve been working in this remote way. We’re now going hybrid. Would you be open to exploring what might really work for us in this new workplace? Tell me what worked for you, what didn’t work for you, or now I know that there may be some changes in your personal life. And we need more of this and less of that. It’s a natural opportunity for conversation. And I believe everything a leader should be on the table.
Carley Hauck 44:33
Right? I agree. I would really love to be able to help facilitate conversations with teams that are speaking to this is what would have me stay and I’d be so excited to stay and contribute and bring this and bring that and this is what has me want to leave. I mean, if we could be that authentic.
Carson Tate 45:01
Now we know. I mean So all change starts with awareness. I can’t change when I’m not aware of. That is a foundational principle, we use it as coaches all the time. So how do we dial up that awareness, but if the leader knows that what is making me want to leave is a lack of what I perceive is career advancement and development. We now can work on that together.
So maybe there isn’t the next level position available. But maybe there’s an opportunity for me to support you in getting on a company wide committee, maybe we can look at sponsorship and mentorship in a new and different way for you. But once I know as a leader and I’ve expressed it and owning it as a team member, we can start to affect positive change.
Carley Hauck 45:49
And what would you say to a client that is sharing what they want, and there’s no room for change. There’s no budging of the senior leadership or that person’s direct supervisor.
Carson Tate 46:08
So the first thing I’m going to ask is, do you know this for sure? So do we have, do you have data? Have you or can you tell me about the conversations that you’ve had? What has been said, what has not been done?
So first, I want to make sure that we are not telling ourselves a story that we actively have taken steps to ask for a mentor, or ask to be nominated for a committee or asked to do more of this type of work, where I shine. And when you’re met with resistance, then you can go around. So is there another leader in the organization who might afford you an opportunity to leverage his strength, serve as a mentor, introduce you to a person to cultivate a relationship with so we can go around?
Is there an opportunity within the organization to develop some skills and some relationships that are not being met, if with your manager and your team? Or is this just completely intractable, nothing is going to change, you don’t see any other avenues around, then it might be the time to think about leaving this team, this division for a new division in your organization, or time to leave the organization.
But I would challenge anyone to make sure you’re very clear on what your engagement and fulfillment needs are, what your boundaries are, what your values are, how you define meaning and purpose and work before you go to look for that new job. Because wherever you go, there you are, if you haven’t done the work on yourself, and you aren’t clear on how you contributed to that situation, because as much as we don’t want to say it sometimes, in that situation, you have been a participant, you have a piece of the action. So let’s get really clear on what it was. So that we can create a different experience and a different future in that new workplace.
Carley Hauck 48:11
I love that. Yeah, the radical responsibility, but then also getting really clear on what it is that you need and want. I appreciated you sharing boundaries, because I think that, at least in my own experience, and in my own work, and I’m sure you’ve struggled navigating it as well, we don’t have the same boundary between work and home anymore. They, I mean, they’ve always been integrated. But now more so than ever, we’re not leaving our homes. And as you said, you know, we might be going back into the office a couple of days a week, and we may not some, you know, some companies, it’s indefinite. They’re not going back today.
And so how do we really create those boundaries between work and home, especially if our company and our team are not showcasing healthy boundaries between work and home? Do you have any thoughts around that? Because I, it’s definitely something I’ve been exploring. I’ve been talking to teams and clients with.
Carson Tate 49:15
The first place when we are working with teams because it is coming up more now than it ever has, is to invite a conversation. So as a team, and again, use this time, our company has just announced that we will be staying. Our team is going to be a fully remote team. That’s a change.
So this again, is this natural opening for us collectively as a team to talk about what does that mean, and what are the working agreements. So I challenge teams to talk about what is your standard email response time? I don’t want the assumption. I want the stated implicit expectation of email response time. What is the last hour of the day that we will have a meeting? What is the earliest hour that we will have a meeting, taking into account if we have global colleagues. Some of us are caring for elderly parents, some of us are doing childcare responsibilities in the morning in the afternoon. How do we want to conduct our team meetings? Are we going to record them? So asynchronous work is possible? What are we going to do in terms of preparation? How are we going to honor if there is an emergency and I need Carley to respond right away? What constitutes an emergency? And what communication channels will we use for that, so that the 9:30 pm email or text is not that the unspoken rule is that you have to respond. That it could be that a team member was doing some work in the evening, because they needed the time during the day to care for something else. And for them, this is just their time. But there are no expectations that you respond, because these are no response times. And this is our workday.
Carley Hauck 51:02
Those are wonderful suggestions. So for those of you that are listening, Carson has this fabulous book Own It, Love It, Make It Work: How to Make Any Job Your Dream Job. She also has a workbook. And so a lot of these tips and practices we’re talking about are in the book, and you can work through them to really own what’s going to work for you.
Carson, what else would you like to leave folks as far as how they can get in touch.
Carson Tate 51:30
So that book is available Own It, Love It, Make It Work on Amazon, all of your outlets where you’d like to buy your book, if you’d like to listen if you love to listen, all of it’s available on all the audiobook channels as well. Website workingsimply.com, we do have lots of additional tools and resources and tips and strategies free there on the website for you. And if you’re on social media, The Carson Tate on LinkedIn and again, lots of articles and free content there as well.
Carley Hauck 52:01
Wonderful. Again, thank you so much. This was really delightful, and always a pleasure.
Carson Tate 52:10
Likewise, thank you so much.
Carley Hauck 52:12
Thank you Carson for your time, and your light, and friendship. I appreciate the leadership that you’re bringing in this pivotal time to folks and companies. If you want to connect more with Carson and tap into some of her amazing offerings, the links are in the show notes. If you enjoy this episode or other SHINE podcast episodes, this is number 50, can’t believe we hit 50, I would love for you to share it with friends, family, colleagues or on your favorite social media channel. The more light we can spread amidst the murky waters we’re all navigating the better.
If you have any questions, comments for topics you would like me to address on the podcast. Please email me at firstname.lastname@example.org I would love to hear from you. Thank you for being part of this community for tuning in. And I have several wonderful episodes throughout the end of the year. So keep coming back. And until we meet again. Be the light and shine the light my friend.