What is at the root of most human conflict? Trauma. The presence of individual, collective, and intergenerational trauma is an important dimension in the workforce that needs attention and healing. In this interview, tune in to understand the science of trauma and the opportunity to positively shape and influence the future of work and our world through trauma informed leadership. Amy and Carley share important skills and practices for healing and collaboration that everyone can learn to create well being and a healthy organizational culture. Lastly, understand the intersection of trauma, consciousness, and climate change.
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Carley Hauck 0:11
Hi, my name is Carley Hauck and I am host of the shine podcast. This podcast has been flickering strong since May 2019. I began the podcast due to all the research I was conducting. In interviews with organizational leaders, lead scientists, academic researchers and spiritual teachers for my new book shine, ignite your inner game to lead consciously at work in the world. I wrote my book to inspire a new paradigm of conscious leadership and business that was in service of higher purpose to help humans flourish, and regenerate our planet. The podcast focuses on the science and application of conscious inclusive leadership, the recipe for high performing teams and awareness practices that you can cultivate to be the kind of leader our world needs now. I will be facilitating two to three episodes a month. And before I tell you about the theme of our season, please go over to Apple podcasts, hit the subscribe button on shine or go to your favorite podcast platform carrier. That way you don’t miss one episode. Thank you. This season is going to be focused on what leadership skills are most needed to create a healthy organizational culture. Leadership and manager effectiveness has been deemed the number one priority for HR in 2023. And every person listening, whether you have a formal leadership title or not, you are a leader. We all have the responsibility to lead around something that we care about whether it’s at home with our family, and our communities, and or in the workplace. And onto the podcast. Hello, everyone. I am so delighted to be with you today to talk to my friend Amy, Elizabeth Fox, Amy and I first connected more on an energetic level in 2021, when I was going through Thomas cupules, collective healing trauma six month course, which was amazing. And Amy was part of that program and facilitation. Amy, please introduce yourself. I’m so happy to have you here.
Amy Elizabeth Fox 2:50
I’m very delighted currently to be with you and to have this conversation. So I’m the co founder and CEO of a professional services firm called Morbius executive leadership, which has particular expertise in doing deep immersive leadership development experiences for senior executives with a focus on experiential learning and vertical development. And more deeply, maybe I would say focus on healing and integration of the life experiences that executives have had that would enable them to have more degrees of open heartedness, attunement, aliveness, passion, Joy. Yeah, I’ve had the great privilege of being a senior student of Thomas’s for the last 10 years and collaborating closely with him. So I’m also a trauma expert, and try to bring trauma informed approaches to leadership development,
Carley Hauck 3:50
which is so needed and will be a lot of the conversation we’ll be having today. Thank you. Wonderful. Thank you. Wonderful. Well, some of the things that I wanted to talk about with you in this conversation are, what are the skills we need to cultivate to lead effectively in the presence of a traumatized workforce? And how can we transform society through investing in conscious leadership development. I also wanted to speak to some different training practices that we can share just with the listeners today that would encourage everyone to be more trauma informed. And, you know, I know that you have a wonderful program that you have that we can talk about as well.
Unknown Speaker 4:41
Carley Hauck 4:44
So let’s let’s start with the top. How can we transform society and thus the workplace by investing in conscious leadership skills, and I know that this has been a deep part of your work and I thought as a way to answer this question, we could leverage some of the conscious leadership framework that I’ve been developing I’ve done a lot of research on in the last 10 years. So there are nine leadership competencies that I’ve distilled that when people are actually cultivating those on a continuum, then it allows us to really lead from that conscious, inclusive place that is being able to create psychological safety, trust, high performance, belonging, you know, these are the leaders that people want to follow. They’re the leaders that people want to stay with. And they are also the leaders that are guided by a deeper set of a deeper purpose is what I wanted to say. And so those nine are self awareness, self management, empathy, resilience, and other way we can think of that as having a growth mindset, humility, self belonging, which includes self love, self acceptance, self forgiveness, and also self compassion. And then there’s the physiological and psychological well being, so those are the nine. And those are all oriented towards the self. Because in order to change the outer, we have to focus on the inner. And I know that’s a big part of, you know, the work that you also facilitate is that deeper inner work that healing work. And so when you think of those nine, different conscious leadership skills, which ones come to the forefront of the ones that you think are most important, as we’re looking to kind of transform our society.
Amy Elizabeth Fox 6:48
First of all, I just think it’s a really precise Karli and articulation of some of the core transformational mindsets that all of us are working towards. And maybe I’ll just take a few and talk about how the absence of those particular qualities creates a traumatized workplace. So if we just take your first two distinctions of self awareness and emotional self management, what we know is that most leaders are walking around pretty numb emotionally, meaning they’re not in active self intimacy with their own effectual experience, they don’t feel their feelings. They live disembodied in a certain way, because we’ve created workplaces, which are mechanistic in the way they look at the workforce. They’re not operating as thriving living human systems of intimacy and interdependence, and mutual generosity. That’s just not the premise of how we relate to each other in most organizations. So in order to live disembodied, and absent emotions, you have to do sort of micro behavioral hacks or big addictions, in order to not feel because naturally feelings arise feelings, express feelings, integrate, that’s just there’s a natural arc to the emotional experience if you’re not doing something to disrupt it. But because so many executives walk around, disconnected from their felt experience, they’re often acting out of trigger reactive patterns, without recognizing that the things that they’re saying or the moves they’re making, or the ways they’re behaving and relating and responding are being informed by a exacerbated sense of threat, and a survival strategy. Because they don’t have emotional self awareness and emotional self management. You get workplaces with very toxic behavior, bullying, behavior, cool feedback,
Carley Hauck 8:48
Amy Elizabeth Fox 8:49
microaggressions, power over others, the assertion of rigid ideation, a very rule based socialized culture, where expressing dissent or expressing individuality or expressing your cultural or faith life or even just expressing care is seen as a sort of outlier. And potentially something you get scapegoated for. So those two in particular, people getting closer to their felt experience of life, and having the ability to know when they’re knocked off balance and having some skill to bring themselves back into a grounded center resourced place, I think of as the most critical skills for the cultivation of psychological safety, teaming, collaboration, innovation, cultures that are developmental in nature. So I would probably pick those two. And then I also really love the quality of humility that you mentioned, because I think so much of the workplace is based on recognizing high status moves an egoic claiming of accomplishment, and a high degree of self confidence bordering on grandiosity and arrogance. And all of that, I think, is a sign of a traumatized world. In an Andromeda sized world, we’re not competing with each other for our greatness, we’re sitting in our own self sufficiency and to use your beautiful language, self blessing. And we’re only amplified by other people’s gifts and other people’s strengths and the chance to learn from them and grow with them and collaborate with them. So there’s a kind of humility is close to abundance in my mind, like that I’m sitting in myself with enough sense of my beauty and my blessing and my place. And my work, that the fact that we work alongside each other doesn’t threaten me, it just lifts me up. And I, there is a humility to anybody who’s trying now to lead in an environment that’s fast changing, that requires this much adaptation that has so much unknown and unpredictable dimensions of the context in which we’re leading now, you ought to have a certain humility, because nobody can know the answer anymore. It’s not possible. So we need collective intelligence, we need dialogue skills, we need deep listening skills. And we need intuitive skills. So that we’re guided by higher intelligence, and not just what we, you know, learned in school or our existing body of experience and expertise, we need the fresh wind of the future now more than ever.
Carley Hauck 11:39
I love that the fresh wind of the future. So I hear you saying you feel out of those nine, self awareness, self management, and humility, and really tying humility with this greater sense of abundance of I am worthy, and therefore you are worthy. And you know, your greatness does not diminish my light, so to speak, like we can both actually shine brighter together. And I agree with you, I do believe that the new paradigm of leadership is leading together, we are not going to be able to figure it out alone, it’s way too much responsibility on one person’s shoulders. And there’s going to be as as you know, because both of us are very tuned in to the climate science, there’s going to be just so much unknown complexity and our natural environment, that we’re going to have to really lean on one another, I think more than we ever have before.
Amy Elizabeth Fox 12:36
Yeah, I mean, that’s so touching. And it causes me to name another facet of humility, which is, if you think about the multi dimensional Polly crisis that we’re now in, I think there’s a bowing down, we’re all going to have to do, we don’t know how to help. We don’t know how to even let the current context permeate our heart. Because it’s so overwhelming, and the potential consequences of our choices are so catastrophic. And we’re already seeing, for example, climate devastation and migration, that when we’re facing an unknown world in that way, meaning there’s going to be levels of suffering and displacement. We have not known before. Humility is an appropriate response to that. I think.
Carley Hauck 13:24
As you’re speaking, just waves of goosebumps are going through my body. I just feel my my heart really touched this hearing you say that? Thank you.
Amy Elizabeth Fox 13:38
Yeah, I feel very strongly that, as you said, there’s got to be a movement from expertise in Dominion to a call to serve life and willingness to be broken open and through that process.
Carley Hauck 13:58
So, onto the next question, when you feel ready, I’ll just go ahead and put it out there. So out of some of these conscious leadership skills, I know you’ve done a lot of inner work, and I know continue to you’re holding so many hats and identities and roles and serving. And I feel curious, what skill or skills are really helping you to thrive or or we can even say lead, like lead through change right now lead as best as you can.
Amy Elizabeth Fox 14:40
I mean, I think the first thing I would say is that I’m very fortunate to have real time for reflection and self cultivation. So I take regular retreats where I’m tending to my inner life working with one of my teachers, often receiving a lot of hands on healing work. So I take time to metabolize the intensity of the experience I have when I’m quote on by systematically coming off, and off means Off, off email off cell phones, have the need to be productive, have the need to have anything together. So the dimension of that is self reflection. And a dimension of that is emotional processing of experience, a dimension of that is being nurtured by the intimacy of companionship in spiritual practice. dimension of that is being in communities of friends who are studying together or practicing together and with whom I feel great joy and dance together and sing together and meditate together and travel together. And those things are enormous sources of nurturing to me. And I think for any of us who are committed to the long walk of restoration, or ecological sanity, or equity and racial healing work, we have to look for where’s the waterfalls of love into our system that will lift up our spirits inspire us keep our eye on the horizon. And I think in fact, it’s our moral and therapeutic obligation to pay disproportionate attention to sources of joy and beauty and order and peace. Because otherwise, we’re going to collapse. And then the work of serving life becomes self damaging and self punishing. And I think, maybe even impossible at some point, like if you’re not, there isn’t a rhythm of retreat and self attention in that way.
Carley Hauck 16:46
It’s that recovery time. Yeah, so I So I hear you’re, you’re spending a lot of time really nourishing the psychological well, being the physical well being, you know, these practices of being completely off retreat time, also being in company with people that are practicing these nourishing ways of looking at life of being, you know, you said, your, your teaching, and then hands on healing, making sure that you’re getting touch. So I just really sense a lot of embodied time. Yeah,
Amy Elizabeth Fox 17:21
that’s a gorgeous reflection. And I want to say, those are my things, right, that give me rejuvenation and restoration. I don’t think the answer is Oh, go do Amy’s things. I think the answer is find out what really is your fuel and vitality and your recharge capacity, you know, practices, and that every one of us has to really have a language for what you described as recovery time. Otherwise, we wind up just, you know, sitting on the couch watching old, you know, episodes of Westworld, which I also love to do. But it won’t produce the same readiness to reengage that doing practices that bring you to your depths that are steeped in devotion that are self evolving, practices that have you feel like you’re on a path of continuous healing and continuous possibility. I think those activities, whichever they are for each person, those are the things that we need to start prioritizing and making more time for.
Carley Hauck 18:24
I agree. I agree. I was going to chime in that I think without those practices that I’m really cultivating on a daily basis, but also creating bigger chunks of time to nourish myself in. There’s no way I could keep going and feeling inspired to continue to be in service. So no, I like to kind of put myself in the same hot seat as I put my guests. So in fact, all of the things that you just shared are like yes, me to
Amy Elizabeth Fox 18:56
write currently, since you mentioned daily, like what is it you do every day? Because I’m talking about sort of a sort of a month long rhythm of in and out. Yeah, please feel free to amplify me with sort of daily practices.
Carley Hauck 19:08
Yeah, and I’d love to hear yours too. Well, these are kind of funny, but here they are. And they change you know, every now and again, but in the morning, I usually have like some lemon water. That’s the first thing that I drink. I make some herbal Mati tea, which I drink slowly. I have really been getting into rebounding in the last few years. So I have a small trampoline, and I jump on it for 10 minutes while actually singing or or just silently blue. I’m gonna tell everyone this. I recite different mantras, but one of them is why he guru. Why he guru why he guru why Guru sometimes it’s, you know, other chances. Well, it might be the Lakshmi Lakshmi mantra, it might be a Ganesha mantra. It might be It might be something else. But yeah, it’s usually chanting. And in that space, I’m also giving gratitude. So my, my brain is kind of doing both things, I then will go into some yoga, and then a sitting practice. So the first hour for me, it’s all about just embodiment. And then just being in preparing myself for, you know, for the day, and then I eat a vegan diet and really focus on nourishing healthy whole foods, organic foods, and give blessing, you know, before I eat them to the farmers to Gaia. So that’s a, that’s a practice of mine to just so aware of how hard it is to grow food, and good food. And I just always want to be grateful for that. And also getting into, you know, some type of activity that’s actually going to get my heart rate up off often in nature. So I live in Santa Barbara right now. So, you know, I get to see the ocean, and there’s mountains not too far away. And so those are a lot of the embodiment pieces that I bring in I’m, I’m still new to this community. So I’m finding my people, and the people that are, I would say, vibrating at the same frequency as I am. And so still still nurturing those relationships. But yeah, those are just some of the things.
Amy Elizabeth Fox 21:24
Thanks, super lovely, maybe that highlight a few things you said, the first thing you said was a slow down. So one of the things that I noticed in organizations that I consult, is that there’s a time scarcity built into the way that the organizational fabric is woven, and people don’t feel that they can ever slow down. And the pace that we’re moving at is not non organic hysteria. And that actually makes us more vulnerable to the kind of reactivity and relational abuse that I was talking about earlier. So I just wanted to come back to this notion. Again, however, anybody would do it to build different rhythms or cycles of time, into your day. The second thing he said is I sing mantra, or I chant mantra. So for anybody that isn’t familiar with that practice, it’s just different Sanskrit names for the divine. It’s a practice bhakti yoga like that, is designed to gradually and inevitably open the heart. So a second thing to do in a day, every day, however you do it, is to make sure you have something that’s dropping the armor of your heart and letting it open and flow. The third thing that you said is I do something that has vitality, that movement in it engagement in a physically you mentioned, but I think equally it’s just about raising spirit, raising lifeforce. And, and I think that’s also a really an important practice. Maybe I would just add one, which is some act of generosity, something that reminds you that you’re not walking alone, that you’re part of a fabric of a community, of a sangha of a company of a team, of a family of a congregation. I think I think we have put way too much emphasis in our society on autonomy and independence, and way too little on belonging and mutuality. And every time we make relational gestures of care and of kindness, we’re kind of slowly re stitching, the fabric of humanity in a way that I think will usually matter.
Carley Hauck 23:40
I love that. Thank you. Well, you know, in the spirit of talking about slowing down, you know, one of the ways that we are able to heal our own trauma, you know, we all have trauma individually, collectively. intergenerationally is that process of slowing down? And so for folks that might be new to this field, I thought I might just take the lead in talking about some of the science, and then we’d love for you to kind of bring in, you know, your perception. Any other thoughts that you have? How does that sound?
Unknown Speaker 24:16
I’m all yours.
Carley Hauck 24:19
Well, so when we think about the idea of is it safe, right? Is my boss safe? Is the team safe? Is is this workplace safe? Like for folks that are interviewing and trying to figure out what is what is the ecosystem? What’s the group I want to join? This term is really called neuroception that Steven Porges, who really developed the polyvagal theory came to kind of pinpoint which is really our body scanning our environment for cues of safety and danger. And when we experience something as dangerous, you know, not normally there could be an energetic memory. Are you that’s really stimulated, for example, like we see a dog on a sidewalk. And it reminds us of the time that we were bit by a dog when we were a kid. But this dog, this little chihuahua is actually not threatening. It’s just that that old trauma is kind of re stimulated. So there’s different ways we can be kind of putting those neuro scepters out to assess if something is safe, or if something is not safe. And what most people I think, don’t recognize about a trigger, is that any trigger this is when you when you feel a sense that you’re threatened, that is actually going back to an original trauma that often is unconscious. And that trigger is usually the root of human conflict, because we’re not necessarily conscious of why we’re reacting the way that we’re reacting. And if we’re reacting in a way that is going to be aggressive, or withdrawing or blaming, these are all the ways that our body, you know, is, is behaving in the midst of the trigger the fight flight freeze, fun response, that typically is breaking down connection, when we behave that way, it’s breaking down communication, if I withdraw, I have to re engage in the connection. If I lash out, I have to find a way to reengage, create healing, create resolution. But if we’re not slowing down, then our nervous system is in that sympathetic overdrive. And we’re going to move into more of those sympathetic reactions and behaviors. But if we’re able to notice, oh my gosh, my heart rate is really elevated right now. Or I’m feeling a lot of anger in my hands and my belly, and I’m about to say something that is not going to be skillful right now, can I pause, this comes back to that self awareness, self management piece, and slow down, because in the slowing down, then we’re able to create safety in ourselves. And one regulated nervous system can actually really affect the nervous system of just one person, or the whole group, or the whole team. And so that slowing down just feels really vital right now. And I know, you have said the same me I’ve said it, I think many of us have said, I’ve heard Thomas say it, you know when when we start to numb out, that’s usually a sign that the body is in overwhelm too much, too much too fast, whatever it is. And if we’re numbing out, then we’re not able to feel ourselves, we can’t feel another. And then it’s gonna be really hard to know how to lead ourselves or lead others in that time, in that moment, make the right decision for the greater good. So that was kind of a mouthful, but we’d love to hear any thoughts, other reflections addition,
Amy Elizabeth Fox 28:11
I mean, I thought that was such a rich articulation of the self awareness process of starting to notice the physiology of that reactivity earlier on, in life cycle of the upset so that you can intervene in your own reactive pattern. And I just wanted to add one thing that you said, which I think is so important currently that most of the reactions that we’re having to current day circumstances are because the current day circumstance reverberates with an earlier hurt. It’s also the same reason why I argue or advocate for organizations to do deep healing work for their senior leaders, because you’re not going to get the level of coherence, tenderness, genuine understanding and compassion. Inside an organizational fabric. If people are still consistently filtering current day experience through the projective screen of their trauma, you have to do something to help people get clean glasses, or at least if not clean glasses, glasses that are not so be searched by earlier hurt. And so we take people away for four and five days and we do really meaningful explorations, not just of the questions of their lives and their future and their dreams and their potential to serve, but also really meticulously examining what were the significant incidents, either in their childhood or even sometimes later in their adult lives that shaped the core fears they walk with, and if you can help people to start to have a greater fluency, with what they are scared of and what they are responding to and reacting to and even potentially One step further help them to metabolize the sensation, memory, or emotion that’s tied to that moment when they froze in the first place, which you described beautifully as an overstimulating impossible to integrate moment, if you can help them cross the threshold of integrating that experience through a tune Minh through titration, through mirroring through deep relational contact and safety, then the natural development process just kicks in. You don’t have to tell people how to flourish, you don’t have to tell people how to make gestures of kindness to their colleague, you don’t have to tell people how to dream bigger, all of that’s natural when it’s not frozen in time in the past. So then, you’re kind of freeing up the natural river of life to run. And people who come in on Sunday night closed, walled off, kind of distrustful, very contained. They just start organically being open hearted, affectionate, creative, spontaneous. The quality of emergence comes back in the room, it’s like frozen in time versus electric time. And in the electric time, there’s just a lot more lifeforce and, you know, qualities of ecstasy and devotion and love. Yeah,
Carley Hauck 31:26
yeah. Beautiful, beautiful. Ah, just like saying, having a biggest example, so that I know that you and I both have some really wonderful practices that might be helpful for folks listening that they could start to implement. So I would love to lead you through a brief one, if you’d be willing to, you know, be on the receiving end. And then I would actually love to receive your practice. How does that sound? Sure, juicy. Okay, here we go. So for those of you listening, this is actually a free meditation that I will put a link in the show notes too, if you like it, and you want to listen to it later. And then we will also be giving show our links to a lot of different resources that Amy has as well. So I’m gonna invite you to just close your eyes, if that feels comfortable, and of closing, our eyes doesn’t feel comfortable, then just go ahead and shift your gaze downward. And this is just an opportunity to go inside. And take a deep breath in, deep breath out, you might notice that as you breathe in the stomach rises. As you breathe out, the stomach falls, we’re just moving our breathing more into our diaphragm, which is going to slow down our heart rate, or blood pressure. And then, when you feel ready, see if you can bring to mind a time that happened recently where you felt triggered. And often trigger is a time when you felt threatened. Or perhaps you felt disrespected. Or perhaps there was conflict, any of these things might have elicited a trigger. And once you get clear on the trigger, and doesn’t have to be the perfect thing. Just whatever comes to mind just for practicing here. On a scale of one to 10 one being that you feel cool as a cucumber 10 being that you are about to lose it. What is your number? And I’m going to have you just hold this inside and then I’m going to ask you all this when we come out what’s your number on a one to 10 It’s your level of trigger. And now move into your emotions. What feelings are here, there may be many and they’re all welcome. frustration, disappointment, sadness. Again, if you’re not triggered, you might just be kind of calm and content, whatever is here, just noticing, naming, labeling, acknowledging. And then going a little fast in the presence of time. So if you notice that you haven’t quite figured out what you’re feeling. That’s okay too. That’s good wisdom. Good information. We can always come back to this practice later. And next, let’s move into the body. What sensations are you aware of in the body as you do a scan from the top of your head to the bottom of your feet? Perhaps you’re able to discern where you might be holding the most tension in your body right now. Maybe it’s the jaw or the neck or the belly? The upper back just note Seeing welcoming whatever is here.
And then lastly, noticing what story, you’re telling yourself about what happened. That precipitated the trigger. Could be, I cannot believe this person just did that again. Or something to that effect, or something completely different. What is your story? That precipitated the trigger? What meaning are you making out of this situation? The circumstance? And is that story, empowering you? Or is it actually keeping you captive? Because you get to choose. So, Amy, thank you for receiving all of that. For the purposes of practice, would you be willing to share?
Amy Elizabeth Fox 36:18
Yeah, for sure. So, I picked a recent event where I was struggling with a friend. And I was, I think, a seven out of 10. And maybe it’s just worth saying universally for the audience that no matter how much inner work you’ve done, there doesn’t appear to be an endpoint where you’re immune to such triggers. I certainly haven’t hit it yet. I’ve been at this for four years. So there’s also just like, even in noticing the number, there’s kind of a moment of self compassion of like, here I go, again, me doing my trigger thing. Yeah, the sensations are very predictable. Actually, when when it’s that high, my jaw gets tight, my heart rate gets faster, my breathing gets shallow. And I get kind of cold or clammy, I would say even. And I think your question at the end, Carly around, what meaning are you making is where there’s the most leverage because if I change the frame, I’m holding, all the physiology follows your frame. So the minute I can give it a more benign narrative, or give the person the benefit of the doubt, or take it less personally as the consequences of the situation. I mean, any one of those could be a way of reframing it. And in this case, I was sort of the person was accusing me of certain things. And in that moment, I felt the need to defend myself, but when you just asked me now, what would be a different narrative? I thought, well, what if I just listened for what parts of those things could be true? I mean, there’s certainly true in that person’s experience. And maybe they’re true, legitimately, they’re things for me to look at. And so if I don’t try to defend myself that I couldn’t have unconscious motivation, or multiple layers of motivation, those that I’m aware of, and those that are in my, outside my periphery, then that moment becomes a learning moment, rather than a threatening moment. And so that’s where I went in when you said, you know, what’s a different narrative? The shift and narratives like, oh, what’s mine to learn here?
Carley Hauck 38:26
Beautiful, I love that. And that’s, that’s the humility and growth mindset. But you are also showcasing the self awareness and the self management, understanding that you are at a seven, feeling the body clammy, you know, tight jaw noticing, oh, yeah, this is what a seven normally feels like in my body, and then noticing that you can actually change your narrative and story. And I loved that aspect of noticing. Okay, so maybe what is mine? And what is not? Right? That’s a great question like, because some of this is her stuff. It’s her trauma. It’s her wounding that she may not be seeing. And some of it might be something that you’re doing that’s triggering that right.
Amy Elizabeth Fox 39:08
Now, I think it’s we’re probably always better off imagining that we each have a piece of the pie. Exactly,
Carley Hauck 39:14
exactly. So if you’re open to it, I know you have a beautiful practice, I would love to receive it. I’d
Amy Elizabeth Fox 39:23
be delighted to guide you through it. It’s your practice, I think is an unbelievably in the moment in the heat of the moment, useful practice. The one I thought to share was a bit more of an invitation for people to think about where they are in the lineage of life. And it’s a meditation for reflecting on what’s yours to do. The first time I met Thomas, he said the following sentence from the stage and it went through me like a lightning bolt soul to soul. He said, Not until you’re at perfect peace with Your past, he could have stopped there. And I would have been galvanized, because I’ve been in the inner inner healing game for a long, long time. And I have long since given up the notion that one could ever arrive at perfect peace with one’s past. So already he was offering a possibility that was not in my awareness and spectacularly gorgeous to me. So first half of the sentence, not until you’re at perfect peace with your past. Second half of the sentence, can you virgin birth, the part of the future, you came into life to gift?
Carley Hauck 40:36
Beautiful. You know, it’s funny, one of the things I noticed myself that I do in a lot of conversations is I say beautiful, and you say gorgeous.
Amy Elizabeth Fox 40:47
participant in a program, this was a really funny moment is a very cynical guy. And he it took him a little while to melt. And he raised his hand on the last day. And he said, You know what me? He said, the first three days, we would stay safe things and you would say beautiful are gorgeous. Oh, that’s so touching. And I would think it can’t all be beautiful. It can all be touching. And he said, No, it’s Friday, and I realized it is all Ah, my particular remark but I just think so much that’s meaningful in our lives, we just let pass without noticing. And the habit of actually named me when things touch you. It’s such an important thing for your own open heartedness. But equally for our shared field of intimacy, I think glistening anyway, so in this practice, I’ll do a very brief version of it, but it’s just, it’s a chance to think about what the walk towards perfect peace with your past would be. And equally the chance to think about what your virgin birth might be. So okay, ready that was about to my teacher. So as clearly invited us to do, let’s all just close our eyes and take a few deeper breaths. And in that process, we move from kind of listening and receiving mode to an interior attention.
And as you turn your attention inward, you’ll notice there’s a kind of underlying quality of spaciousness, stillness. Witnessing awareness, equanimity that’s underneath all this flow of thought, emotion and sensation. It’s kind of like an abiding
and then let me invite you to imagine that you’re sitting on a bench, placed somewhere in nature that you find particularly nurturing whether or not it would be physically possible, the bench could be sitting by the ocean, it could be on your favorite trail in the woods. Could be in your backyard. Could be in an urban park could be on a mountain, full of snow
and as you’re sitting there just for a moment, imagine that behind you, is a line of your ancestors. Anyone that feels safe to include could be your parents, your grandparents, extended family the lineage as far back as you know it’s or just a more generic those who came before me
and you might just ask yourself, what are the gifts I take from this ancestry?
How has my lineage shaped my values? My moral compass the vows I take in life
who sacrifices do I need to honor with my own dedicated service?
What secrets are mined to tell that pain is mined to heal? What family secrets are mined to tell? And what ancestral pain is mine T Hill?
And what stops in my generation? What do I refuse to pass forward in time? Through my own conviction, and my own well being? What stops with me
and then putting in front of you, your own children, your grandchildren, children in your neighborhood, or just the future generations of life
you might ask a slightly different set of questions like what’s mine to teach? To whom should I give my blessing?
What do I want to cultivate in my life as a gift to future generations?
How will the song of my life reverberate like a ripple forward in time? How will the song of my life reverberate like a ripple in time?
And then finally, what life wisdom can I pass forward to these next generations? What wisdom can I harvest from my life and offer as counsel or guidance or teaching?
Just inviting, spontaneous moment of inspiration to come to you as a message or praise or an invitation. Just take one minute in silence and then we’ll close.
And then when you’re ready, just gently and slowly opening your eyes and coming back to the room. Wow. So I’m curious, Carly, how that was for you.
Carley Hauck 48:44
are deep. And I know we went through it quickly, just like I did, you know, with the practice I lead you through and I often find in these practices, I need more time. You know, Marcia,
Amy Elizabeth Fox 48:57
and you can take those same questions to a journal and or share of a dance and you know, that’s right. But
Carley Hauck 49:05
just a little backstory. On my mother’s side, my my grandmother grandfather actually emigrated from the Czech Republic right before Hitler came in. And they moved to the United States and they had nothing. And they, you know, created a business from nothing. They they created a kosher Jewish deli, deli and Grocery Store and Bakery. And they worked all the time, and they had five kids. And as a result, you know, those kids didn’t have a lot of parenting, but what I took, I think from from them, and that lineage is this very strong work ethic. I have that I have a very strong resiliency in my son and myself. But I, as you were, you know, asking different questions. and some words came up, which was simplicity, like teaching people simplicity, and enoughness. And I feel like so much of the destruction of each other, and the ecosystem is coming from this lack of worthiness on the inside. So we keep trying to fill up, you know, from extracting from not taking care of each other of the planet. And, and then the other question that came when you said, what is mine to like, you know, give and inspire and, and future generations, it’s leadership, we all have an opportunity and responsibility to lead right now. We all have to be leaders right now, around the thing that we care about the thing that we can hold the light for, not alone, but together.
Amy Elizabeth Fox 50:53
Makes me think of your wonderful book shine fairly. That’s right, what you said there. That’s beautiful answers. I mean, I was so touched to hear about your grandparents. And I wonder if their store was next to my grandparents store in Brooklyn. But in any event,
Carley Hauck 51:09
they were in Jersey, but they were close. Yeah, exactly.
Amy Elizabeth Fox 51:12
Um, you know, it’s, I think it’s a really wonderful inquiry over time, you know, both what you inherited that serves you and refines you and shapes you and what you inherited, that’s not so helpful, and was based on hardship that is no longer relevant for some of us. And so then letting it unwind and letting it go from our epigenetics and DNA and neurology and psychology, and you know etheric body. That’s an unwinding process. That really, really matters. And I think, if you’re any of us are lucky enough to be guided in that process by a real teacher, whole degrees of freedom are possible that seem unimaginable when you start the journey.
Carley Hauck 51:56
That was That was lovely. Well, and I I’ll just say the one question that I didn’t speak to, but I think that hit me the most profoundly, and where there were tears is what stops with me, you know, what stops with me, which is what I keep, you know, investing in, and it’s why I wrote my book, and it’s why we’re having this conversation, it’s the hurt and harm, it’s shining the light on the trauma that we all have, that’s creating more hurt and harm. You know, for me, when I see that suffering is eminent, and there’s an opportunity to alleviate suffering, I just want to do that right away, we’ll stop doing the thing that’s crazy, the suffering, fossil fuels stop eating so much meat stop lashing out, stop, let’s just reverse that. Do the opposite of that.
Amy Elizabeth Fox 52:51
And for some people, the thing that stops in their generation is the absence of love and the absence of parenting, and the absence of holding. I’ve met many, many executives who had too little love and expression of attunement in their childhood, and dedicate themselves to being different kinds of mothers and fathers. And I find that equally beautiful, me equally touching.
Carley Hauck 53:19
You. So before we end, thank you so much for that I love that practice, provide, I know that you have this really beautiful offering with Thomas, that is going to be supporting HR professionals, but other folks to become more trauma informed, so that we can stop the hurting and harming. Would you like to share a little more about that? Thank
Amy Elizabeth Fox 53:45
you so much. I’d love to Thomas, who will my teacher and dear friend and I are co leading a year long certificate program called trauma informed consulting and coaching with a focus on helping practitioners and as you mentioned, HR professionals, Chief transformation officers, chief people, officers, consultants, coaches, facilitators, all those in the sort of people development space to become more literate about the way trauma occurs for individuals for teams and as part of the cultural fabric of so many organizations and to be themselves capable of being trauma sensitive, trauma alert, and trauma, alchemical can they learn the skills to actually be the context of repair for somebody or a group of people, which is an incredible privilege. And as you said earlier, Carly, I think going to be more and more urgently needed.
Carley Hauck 54:43
Beautiful. So we will share the link to that in wonderful show notes. Thank you for sharing more. And lastly, this is just my own inquiry, but I’m sure it’ll be helpful for other folks. You have this Incredible retreat that happens every year. Next practice Institute and you just had it. And I wanted to hear what what were some of like the biggest aha was or insights from this convening once you walk away with
Amy Elizabeth Fox 55:17
I walk away every year with a reminder of how critical being in community of learning is for this kind of work. So many of us do our work solo as a coach or with a team or even consulting work, you often have very small teams. That loneliness means we’re also sealed off from evolutionary opportunities to question our own thinking, diversify our practices, learn new tools, and just celebrate life. So Mobius has created its own professional development arm you mentioned it next practice Institute, which runs supervision groups, mystical study groups, masterclasses in energy and organizational constellations and Family Constellations and programs for men and for women. But once a year, we run this glorious festival called the annual gathering, which is a week long learning tracks twice a day keynotes from thought leaders in emerging scholarship around transformational change at the individual, team and systemic level, and the evenings of singing and dance. And this past week, we had a wonderful cellist with us for an evening of cello meditation, so and so it’s a week of friendship, it’s a week of learning, it’s a week of practice. And in a sense, it’s a week of rededicating ourselves to this long vocational craft, which takes a long time to start to master and it’s a very interdisciplinary practice. So in a way, you’re you’re committing to being a lifelong learner. Beautiful.
Carley Hauck 56:49
Yeah, sounds sounds lovely. And the cello is my favorite instrument. So I, I’m already envious that I missed that. But But lots of mood, DITA that you got to experience it with DITA is a Sanskrit word for sympathetic joy. So I am happy for Amy’s happiness. And I would
Amy Elizabeth Fox 57:11
just say I just want to go back to what you just said about Moon cheetah. Yeah. Now their quality of humility is the abundance of sympathetic joy, the thing we were talking about earlier, if I don’t live in a world of scarcity, then your joy is something that’s a joy to me, not something I’m jealous of, or competitive to or envious of. And that move that you just made so poignant to me. I can just be happy that you had this beautiful moment, rather than contracting in my having missed such a moment. If we could all make that move different planet.
Carley Hauck 57:46
Totally. Well, I noticed the I noticed him I was like, Oh, wow, that sounds like but she was I’m so happy she was there. And amazing.
Unknown Speaker 58:00
That’s a sign of real spiritual maturity that move.
Carley Hauck 58:02
Oh, well. Thank you. Thank you. Well, this conversation was so delicious. I’m so sad. We have to part I felt her having me really down. Thank
Amy Elizabeth Fox 58:14
you for having me. I hope everybody enjoyed the conversation as much as we did.
Carley Hauck 58:17
Yeah. Thank you, Amy, take good care of yourself. And I look forward to the next conversation.
Unknown Speaker 58:25
Me too curly things.
Carley Hauck 58:29
Thank you, Amy, for your leadership and this wonderful conversation. When Amy and I were off air. The last thing that we talked about was, who do we dance with in the darkness. And that is really the opportunity. And the challenge that we’re all facing and humanity right now is that there is a bit of dancing in the darkness, as we face lots of complexity. And the way that we do that is come together. And we need each other and these important practices for purpose for healing more than ever. To stay connected to Amy. There are many links in the show notes and other resources that she has to help you and your organization become more trauma informed. I also would love to be a resource on that subject for you as well. You might also want to explore some of the incredible research that is happening in the use of psychedelics and psychotherapy, assistance for trauma and healing. And I’ve left an important article in the show notes for you to read. There’s a lot of free research and clinical trials that are happening around MDMA, psilocybin, and there will be more, because this is going to be one of the important ways that we can raise our consciousness faster. In order to solve some of these large human and environmental problems. I also am leaving a link to the trigger meditation that I lead with Amy, it’s actually a core part of my framework on conscious leadership. And there is a section on my website where there are 15 free meditations. And you can listen to that particular one. If that is something you’d like to engage in daily practice with. I am also partnering with Team Ratterree on the subject matter of how to move from triggered to triumph with teams, because when one person is triggered, the whole team is triggered. And then it is very hard to collaborate to effectively communicate and to resolve conflict in a healthy way. So that link is also in the show notes. And I am happy to design and customize specific training and development for your team or your organization. On other topics. I have spent my life in service of various well being learning and leadership courses and content to support the consciousness of people and workplaces. So please feel free to reach out to me and we can talk more about what I could design and develop for you before end of year. And lastly, I wanted to put out an invitation and a desire that I have been in the process of moving from running my own business where I’ve exclusively partnered with C suite and senior HR folks to joining a company internally to direct learning, leadership and cultural transformation. I am so excited for this pivot. And I’m interviewing for the right boss, the team and company now where I can really fulfill this purpose. And I would be delighted to have a conversation about what your needs are or if you know of anyone that is on the verge of hiring or looking to hire. This is where I would love to step into in the new year. So please feel free to reach out I’m open to new opportunities and new connections. Thank you for tuning in. I have several more incredible podcasts interviews through the end of the year. So until we meet again, be the light and shine your light